Dawn of Warhammer 40,000: Firestorm Over Kaurava

The definitive Table Top conversion mod for Dawn of War.
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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 11:53 am 
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Silencer001 wrote:
Twin-linked Smart Missile Launcher deals almost ZERO damage. The second twin-linked Burst Cannon upgrade does decent damage. It hurts infantry and even light vehicles, but that Smart Missile Launcher is nigh on useless

Can you explain how does that work? They have the exact same damage and AP, if anything the Smart Missile Launcher has better DPS because it fires faster. It's better than guard's T-L heavy bolter.

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Eldar Tier 2: Monstrously powerful. They retain the twin-linked Star Cannon and gain a twin-linked bright lance. That's two major anti-infantry/vehicle weapons.

OK, I agree here. Why do Eldar get two weapons instead of one that changes with upgrades like every other race? And what weapons! It's like guard LP 3 had a T-L multi-laser and a T-L lascannon. That's OP if you ask me.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 1:19 pm 
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That is quite peculiar. So far I had the impression that Tau LPs with Smart Missiles could defend themselves quite well...

Quote:

SMS
R24" S5 AP5 Heavy4


I'm not a TT guy, but isn't a heavy bolter something like S5 Heavy 2 ? (Don't know AP)

Why should the SMS be so much better against vehicles? Maybe a special rule...

From what I observed, SMS fits well in line with the other weapons, but that's just a personal oppinion...


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 2:10 pm 
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Heavy Bolter is R36 S5 AP4 Heavy3 - better than smart missiles only against 4+ saves.

Question is why should smart missiles be better against vehicles? They're not supposed to.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 5:22 pm 
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VooV wrote:
Heavy Bolter is R36 S5 AP4 Heavy3 - better than smart missiles only against 4+ saves.

Question is why should smart missiles be better against vehicles? They're not supposed to.



Thanks for clearing that up.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 9:14 pm 
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I realize in TT rules that the Smart Missile Launcher should not be good against vehicles. However, it should be good against infantry and it is not.

It does knock down infantry and it's graphics and particle effects look fantastic as the missile explode quickly against the the chest armor of a space marine. However, the rest of the squad of Space Marines is still standing and shooting at the LP while the Space Marine being knocked down is taking so little damage, his health is nearly capable of regenerating faster than it is lost (Heroes mod off).

That's why I think this is a bug that affects all of the Smart Missile Launchers because I've noticed the same lack of damage from Hammerhead chassis, Devil Rays and Broadsides.

Warforger, as an internal tester, could you start up a game, build up some Tau Tier 2 LPs and watch them attack some Easy Space Marines (With no Firewarrior or Kroot backup) and just click on the squad being attacked and mouse over the individual target being hit and watch how little damage they do? Just to find out whether or not I'm crazy?

Also, I had to say, that if the shooty Eldar get twin-linked brightlances, I think the shoot Tau should get Twin-linked Ion Cannon turrets for their Tier 2 LPs.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sat Dec 19, 2009 10:57 pm 
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Um, you know it's obvious they're not effective vs marines with their 3+ save. And apart from eldar none LP is. Maybe assault cannons hurt them a bit more because of rending but that's it. Smart missiles are for targets like ork boyz or guardsmen not MEQs :shock:

Quote:
Also, I had to say, that if the shooty Eldar get twin-linked brightlances, I think the shoot Tau should get Twin-linked Ion Cannon turrets for their Tier 2 LPs.

... then I want an Executioner plasma cannon on guard LPs. But seriously we should fix the eldar LP not create more IMBA.

BTW: wasn't there a thread discussing the whole LP / turret issue?

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 1:32 am 
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VooV,


The Tau Tier 2 LP does the same, little to no damage to ALL enemies. Not just Space Marines. The same test can be performed against a Guardsman, Ork, Guardian, Necron Warrior, Firewarrior or Cultist and the same results would be evident.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 11:29 am 
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I've checked that weapon with Corsix mod studio and it seems OK... with damage 40-50 it should kill a guardsman with 6-7 shots or an ork with 8-10.
How about a replay?

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 12:35 pm 
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There is nothing wrong in Smart Missile systems, code is completely fine

VooV wrote:
How about a replay?
yeah, from now on, who wanna report a bug, will have as mandatory to post a backing up material such as a replay and/or screenshots.......this thread is getting full of nonsense stuff.

The Knock back was also toned down since we are using a standardized formula for all weapons now...

40-50dmg with a reload time of 0.75sec = 53-67 Dps

Only deals 100% to Armour 1 and 2, Armour 3 receives 50% (27-34 Dps), Armour 4 33%(13-15 Dps), and Armour 5 15% (8-10 Dps)

Same as Burst Cannons, Smart Missile Systems arent "Great" weapons but they are decent at doing their job......and SMS are > than burst cannons simply because of the reload time, a Burst cannon is Heavy3 while the SMS is Heavy4

And i remind that Tau LP3 no longer have SMS but Heavy4 Missile Pods....which puts them very high in "the best LPs" chart...

Please Keep eldar stuff in their own thread......this about tau bugs on FoK3.5

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:10 pm 
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I'll have to figure out a way to post some video here, but what I'm getting at is that you shouldn't be looking at your Corsix Mod Studio numbers, you should be in the game, watching it in action for yourself. The numbers might look right, but it doesn't work in game.

For a twin-linked weapon of it's caliber is deals so little and inconsistent damage, that it needs to be looked at.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 7:50 pm 
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Silencer001 wrote:
I'll have to figure out a way to post some video here

Record a game and upload a replay, they're like 1MB.

Melooo wrote:
And i remind that Tau LP3 no longer have SMS but Heavy4 Missile Pods....which puts them very high in "the best LPs" chart...

I don't mean to derail the thread, but what are the other races getting then? :shock:

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 8:24 pm 
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[quote="VooV"]I don't mean to derail the thread, but what are the other races getting then? :shock:

Assault cannons for Marines/Templars and Chaos, twin-linked heavy bolters for Guard, Gauss cannons with a particle whip for Necrons (at least I think? This easily could've been changed). Those are the ones that I remember, but the point is that Melooo is right - 4 S7 shots is pretty darn good.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:31 pm 
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Katie Drake wrote:
4 S7 shots is pretty darn good.

Well, exactly. While Imperial Guard is stuck with a t-l heavy bolter. Guard's equivalent of 4 S7 AP4 shots would be an Exterminator autocannon. Is there a direction to these changes or LPs just get random buffs here and there? As far as I remember from the LP thread they were supposed to be more or less standardized.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:50 pm 
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Maybe its because they can Garrison there LP? ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Sun Dec 20, 2009 9:55 pm 
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I'll change garrisoning for S7 AP4 Heavy4 any day :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 1:20 am 
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that's not it. Stop analyzing the same numbers and start a game and watch the damage. The Imperial Guard LP works well, the Tau one does not. that's why I posted, I think it's a bug.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 11:53 am 
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I did. It works correctly. And how does it matter anyway, if the weapon changes in the next release?
For the last time: If you think there is a bug that no one else seems to notice provide us with something to support your opinion (a replay or a screenshot). "I think it's a bug" is not enough.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Mon Dec 21, 2009 8:00 pm 
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In Internal they do a hellvua lot of damage so I assume its already fixed for the next release ;)

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 4:20 am 
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Thanks for checking Warforger, I trust your judgment.


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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Tue Dec 22, 2009 11:50 am 
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Warforger wrote:
In Internal they do a hellvua lot of damage so I assume its already fixed for the next release

Just to avoid further confusion - they were not 'fixed', they were changed from smart missile launcher (S5 AP5 heavy4) to Missile Pods (S7 AP4 heavy4 (It's something from Forge World? Tau codex says they're assault2)). Smart missiles on other units are same as now, there is no bug there.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 12:14 pm 
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Construction Drones seem to Glitch out if asked to enter a Devilfish.They go up to it and move in circles around it but seem to enter if you move the Devilfish around a bit.

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 2:40 pm 
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That's the case for most units/transports actually. Bad AI (pathfinding?)

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 Post subject: Re: Tau Master Bug List
PostPosted: Fri Apr 09, 2010 5:47 pm 
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VooV wrote:
Warforger wrote:
In Internal they do a hellvua lot of damage so I assume its already fixed for the next release

Just to avoid further confusion - they were not 'fixed', they were changed from smart missile launcher (S5 AP5 heavy4) to Missile Pods (S7 AP4 heavy4 (It's something from Forge World? Tau codex says they're assault2)). Smart missiles on other units are same as now, there is no bug there.


They are easily the best LP weapons in FoK. 2 hits kills a marine.


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