Dawn of Warhammer 40,000: Firestorm Over Kaurava

The definitive Table Top conversion mod for Dawn of War.
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 Post subject: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 8:23 am 
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Update on personal status; Coming up on a period of general inactivity, likely to last 10 weeks, where I cannot say I'll be working on Internal code. I'm going to try and fix up some of the little stuff that the last update screwed around with... random junk... but otherwise, I won't be pushing any large progressive projects forward unless I find myself with the time, and then I'd announce it.

In addition, Fuegan is doing some interesting things with his Dark Crusade 3.7 project that I'd actually like to see thoroughly tested for consideration for Internal. There are a lot of pretty large, systematic changes in there, they're the sort of thing I'd want comprehensively tested if they could be; so I'm hoping that we'll have some good results to look at in a couple of weeks for Internal.

In any case, that's my status.

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Fri May 13, 2011 10:28 am 
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Thanks for keeping us informed :)

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 10:00 am 
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Warcaster wrote:
In addition, Fuegan is doing some interesting things with his Dark Crusade 3.7 project that I'd actually like to see thoroughly tested for consideration for Internal. There are a lot of pretty large, systematic changes in there, they're the sort of thing I'd want comprehensively tested if they could be; so I'm hoping that we'll have some good results to look at in a couple of weeks for Internal.


Then tell him to release his 3.7 to everybody when it's finally out no? Fuegan's idea of two separate internals would just clog up stuff even more if you want his ideas properly tested.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 4:27 pm 
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I disagree but if having two internals is such a problem, then why not clean up the current internal to people who actually play the game? I don't need 5 people telling me that their basilisks can't destroy the AI base anymore and to buff them again; I need 1 person to tell me that Imperial Guard T1 infantry are excessively weak and are impossible to win 1vs1's with or that autocannons outclass every other weapon selection in every scenario.

Anyway, if I'm going to release 3.7 to the internals, then I might as well release it to the public. The only reason I'd release it to internals is in the mind set that, "more people = more playtesting" thus public would be the best option.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 4:48 pm 
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Then by all means release it to the public. You'll both get more reports and less work distributing it.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 6:10 pm 
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Shhhh, shhhh. Calmness.

Fuegan has complaints about the efficiency of general Internal testing, but I think it could easily be resolved by consolidation of current testers and an Internal sub-forum with proper regulation. I certainly don't think it should go straight to Public untested, since at the very least we need a basic sweep of content to ensure consistency, and to uncover problems that are not immediately apparent and obvious.

Last thing we need is a buggy Public release (that given the frequency of Public releases, will inevitably be a big deal) that gives what little Public is left the impression that we're not even bug testing things anymore.

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Mon May 16, 2011 9:29 pm 
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Every official release had bugs, several of them quite "obvious". Chaos obliterators have locked autocannons in 3.6 for example, something that one would've expected to be tested as it was the top chaos tactic.

Meanwhile necrons lost phase out, something that wasn't overpowering at all while being one of the main tools of the faction (as they have no nades to evade melee or transports for quick movement), and no proper explanation was ever given despite the necrons becoming utterly unplayable in 1x1.

More in the past we had uber nades wich wiped out whole squads of non-marine infantry by themselves for like 25 energy (and tau nades were locked for the lulz), necrons running on the vanila power-only economy (wich did make them the top race back in the day) and several other bugs that just made one think WTF were the devs thinking.

Other memorable public bugs include power witch blades, AP 1 Lootas, dreads with super cover and many others.

So trust me, the public is more than used to buggy releases.

On the other hand, I'm also all for some consolidation of current testers and proper internal regulation.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 2:30 pm 
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Well if you want to do something with Internal then fine by me; I'll keep my little group in the meantime because I have no love for the current internals. Like I said, if you want to fight about it then it's just going to be public.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:23 pm 
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Fuegan wrote:
I'll keep my little group in the meantime because I have no love for the current internals.


Gee thanks there. And you had to rub salt in the wound with Eminem... :|


Onard, I believe Warcaster was talking about gamebreaking bugs. Which right now the Soulstorm version doesn't really have...don't know why there hasn't been another release. I mean, it works, it's playable...

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 4:36 pm 
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If you give sh1t it is what you will get back, simples.

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 7:22 pm 
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Fuegan wrote:
Like I said, if you want to fight about it then it's just going to be public.


And again, making it public was my main sugestion. You've got a lot to gain and little to lose that way.

Astartes Marine wrote:
Onard, I believe Warcaster was talking about gamebreaking bugs.

Uber nades was a gamebreaking bug. Light infantry was basically a waste of req except for Infantry doctrine guardsmen who could stack up half a dozen buffs so they wouldn't die instantly. Tau would need to get auxiliaries simply because they could use grenades. Every damn infantry battle degenerated into who had the better grenade micro. If being able to beat a 24 guardsmen mob with 3 marines whitout special weapons simply because I had better grenade micro isn't gamebreaking, I don't know what it is.

Astartes Marine wrote:
Which right now the Soulstorm version doesn't really have...don't know why there hasn't been another release. I mean, it works, it's playable...


I ask myself that every time I log on. Sure sisters and DE need some serious tweaking, but compared to the first versions of chaos and orks FoK had, it's more than ready to release.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 9:49 pm 
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If Sisters and DE need serious work, then the point of releasing a Soulstorm version is somewhat nullified.

Given that they're the major foci of the expansion.

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 10:09 pm 
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Gorb wrote:
If Sisters and DE need serious work, then the point of releasing a Soulstorm version is somewhat nullified.

Given that they're the major foci of the expansion.

And what of all the tweaks and improvements the other races have undergone? Like how Chaos AI actually works now and has access to the Unclean One.
I think that enough smaller details were added/improved for the original races that they stand out enough.

Plus no one's saying that once you release a Soulstorm version, that that's it and you won't release any more. Soulstorm gets a release, stuff gets improved, an improved release gets out there. That wouldn't nullify testers as we would obviously test it before we sent each one out. Not telling you how to do things, but just throwing an idea out there.


And yeah, Sisters and DE need serious work...so who's actually working on them? :?


Onard wrote:
Uber nades was a gamebreaking bug. Light infantry was basically a waste of req except for Infantry doctrine guardsmen who could stack up half a dozen buffs so they wouldn't die instantly. Tau would need to get auxiliaries simply because they could use grenades. Every damn infantry battle degenerated into who had the better grenade micro. If being able to beat a 24 guardsmen mob with 3 marines whitout special weapons simply because I had better grenade micro isn't gamebreaking, I don't know what it is.


Okay, I see your point there. Come to think of it I remember the melee system being on the wonky side before Warcaster stepped in.

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Tue May 17, 2011 11:37 pm 
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Gorb wrote:
If Sisters and DE need serious work, then the point of releasing a Soulstorm version is somewhat nullified.

Given that they're the major foci of the expansion.


They need work, but they're playable.

Meanwhile we greatly improved on major points like fleet (wich is simply OP in public), permanent hardcore mode, the new melee system, special and heavy weapons division, bigger line of sight, revised nades, reworked chaos marks, greater daemons, chaos boss wargear, and several other tweaks that did improve a lot the game overall.

Not to mention shiny new termies! Everybody loves shiny new termies! If the internals themselves are willing to let sisters and DE lay on the mud for shiny new termies, I don't see why the public won't go ectasic with shiny new termies alone ! :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:43 am 
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i see no problem with releasing at least something to the public since as of 6 days ago it has been a whole year since the last release. i understand the meaning of having internals(Gorb had a whole explanation about it in a thread awhile ago) but when it takes this long, and especially with a community that's getting smaller and smaller something has to be done. some information does get released but its getting less and less and whats worse its only on the forum. im sure we all know a lot less people check these forums anymore and most only registered to download and that's where it stopped. whens the last time anything got announced on RN? MODDB? a while.. we can't expect people to stay interested like this.

having said all this i know a release still wont be made till the mod is "finished"(eventhough it technically can never be finished as GW will always keep adding stuff, unless they stop which could be awhile)

Onard wrote:
Not to mention shiny new termies! Everybody loves shiny new termies! If the internals themselves are willing to let sisters and DE lay on the mud for shiny new termies, I don't see why the public won't go ectasic with shiny new termies alone!
are you ever going to let that go?
and why is it you only talk about sister and DE? do GK not exist to you? together with sister they form the Inquisition, not just sisters. and yes they lack units and what not, we all know that by now. over and over people keep moaning over it but wheres the thread with a list of models that need to be done? all i see is your thread about their abilities which has nothing to do with models yet you keep on poking at melooo how hes working GK instead of SoB or DE. does he have to do everything? taking initiative and making said list could speed up things, if even its very little so they know what needs to be done. i have no experience with TT whatsoever so i wouldnt know what needs to be done otherwise i would have at least tried to. im not saying its all you Onard, please don't get that idea. but you are the one that recently has been pushing the issue the most.

waaaaay back somewhere in the forums there are old oooold threads with a huge list of what needed to be done and what their progress, i wasnt around that time but im sure it helped a lot in keeping focus on what needs to be worked on.

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 9:15 am 
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Chompster wrote:
are you ever going to let that go?

Maybe when sisters and DE have at least half the model diversity of fanboyed Space Marines. And production of new models for Space Marines isn't infinite times bigger than production of new models for sisters and DE.

Chompster wrote:
and why is it you only talk about sister and DE? do GK not exist to you? together with sister they form the Inquisition, not just sisters.

Thankfully since they're speich merinas, GK do have models on the works last time I checked. And people say I don't check out the developer's workshop enough...

Chompster wrote:
and yes they lack units and what not, we all know that by now. over and over people keep moaning over it but wheres the thread with a list of models that need to be done?

It's more a matter of picking up the codex and seeing what you don't have. But if you insist:

SISTERS MISSING MODELS:
-Combi weapons and eviscerators for squad leaders and HQ.
-Melta bombs for basic sisters (aparently they need animation).
-Jetpack for sister HQ.
-Force weapons for Inquisitor(on top of combi-weapons).
-Hand flamers for seraphins and HQ/squad leaders.
-Dual infernal pistols for seraphins.
-Basic sisters with meltas, storm bolters and heavy flamers.
-Retributors with heavy meltas.
-Celestians with flamers, heavy flamers and heavy bolters.
-Elite slot Inquisitors (and all their equipment options, including transport land raiders wich I supose would have diferent texture).
-Arco-flaggelants.
-Bionics (pretty sure they need models otherwise there's no reason why they weren't put there in the first place)

And then dozens of minor exotic wargear options that aren't really necessary but would've certainly be done if it was in the speich merinas codex.

DARK ELDAR MISSING MODELS:
-Agoniser for the Archon at least, I'm not even asking for the other dozen of exotic CC weapons he can be equiped in codex because the agoniser is easily the best.
-Shadow field, phantom grenade launcher, Clone field and webway portal for archon as well.
-Sslyth, medusae and ur-ghul bodyguards for archon.
-Succubbus HQ and her fancy equipment options.
-Haemonculus with agoniser, see archon about other melee weapons.
-Liquifier gun, scissor hand, Hexrifle, webway portal, crucible of malediction, orb of despair, Dark gate, Animus Vitae for Haemonculus as well and then perhaps the rest of the exotic equipment he can take.
-Haemonculus ancient since we're at it.
-Grotesque/aberration and their liquifier guns, venom blades, flesh gauntlet, mindphase gauntlet, scissorhand.
-Wrack/acothyst and all their fancy weaponry including liquifier guns, agoniser, hexrifle, venom blades, flesh gauntlet, mindphase gauntlet, scissorhand.
-Mandrake squad leader nightfiend.
-Harlequins(wait, we already have the models ready! Go figure why they weren't included as they have the same stats as the eldar ones).
-Beastmaster and its three kind of beasts.
-Reavers with melee capacity and all their fancy equipment like blasters and heat lances and champion with agoniser.
-Venom.
-Cronos parasite engine.
-And then fliers altough I guess they can wait untill others get fliers as well.

Chompster wrote:
waaaaay back somewhere in the forums there are old oooold threads with a huge list of what needed to be done and what their progress, i wasnt around that time but im sure it helped a lot in keeping focus on what needs to be worked on.


Threads seem to get randomly deleted around here indeed, wich is kinda bad. I could swear I had already posted the sisters stuff.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 12:56 pm 
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Onard wrote:
It's more a matter of picking up the codex and seeing what you don't have. But if you insist:
living on an island and not having a local GW store or any of that kind prevents me from doing that, unless i can get one online?

most of the stuff the sisters are missing looks to be fairly easy, as its already been done with a few other armies. and couldn't metla bombs just use the grenade throwing animations?
inferno pistols would need new animations to make it look like they're waving em side to side. the rest should all be there just need to be put together. btw what are heavy meltas? can't find anything on them, or did you mean multi-meltas?
i remember Horus started on the Arco-flaggelants but that was jut before moving to DoW2 so those are barely there, he had the base model mostly done i remember from the pics he posted, though their animations would be the hardest unless they coud maybe use the possessed CSM animations?

DE have lots of stuff to do, wow. and most of which probably need new animations which is the biggest problem as they're all humanoid..ish which are most difficult to animate. but with Melooo's new skills in animation maybe it wont :)

anyhoo, this might not be the proper thread but it had to start somewhere.. and my apologies if you did make said list, it must have been deleted then which really sucks.

after GK im sure all attention will be directed to SoB and DE as i don't see anything else that's really urgent for other armies that are in need as much as them, so hopefully the lists you made will start getting smaller :D

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 1:06 pm 
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Chompster wrote:
Onard wrote:
It's more a matter of picking up the codex and seeing what you don't have. But if you insist:
living on an island and not having a local GW store or any of that kind prevents me from doing that, unless i can get one online?

Here help yourself with DE and sisters.

Chompster wrote:
most of the stuff the sisters are missing looks to be fairly easy, as its already been done with a few other armies. and couldn't metla bombs just use the grenade throwing animations? inferno pistols would need new animations to make it look like they're waving em side to side. the rest should all be there just need to be put together.

If it was easy then why wasn't it already done when the modelers have time to make multiple termie models from scratch?(something to wich we already had working models)

Chompster wrote:

btw what are heavy meltas? can't find anything on them, or did you mean multi-meltas?

Multi meltas yes.

Chompster wrote:
after GK im sure all attention will be directed to SoB and DE as i don't see anything else that's really urgent for other armies that are in need as much as them, so hopefully the lists you made will start getting smaller :D


See, that's what irks me. Speich merinas don't need yet more shiny termie models, and GK already have their basic troops and halberds, but pretty much all the team's modelling focus seems to be geared precisely to that right now.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 1:15 pm 
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Sorry Onard but I think the problem here is that the like of chaos and space marines are what mainly attract the larger part of the community. don't get me wrong in terms of beeing fair and honest and just all modells should have the same ammount of work being dedicated to them, but and its a big BUT there just is not the man power or co-ordination taking place at the moment to find out why this hasn't already been done or why other areas arent being worked on. Plus the modders do this for fun, we get what they are able to provide and thusly we should be grateful for it. Best thing i think the current internals can do (myself included) is look into modelling/ annimations for ourselfs rarther than b1tching about it like a bunch of wannabie board directors.

(That was not aimed at as an insult Onard just so you done get confused, If you feel i have just say and i'll appologise forthwith ;) )

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 2:47 pm 
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Horus models what he wants, Onard. If you think the other races need more polish, recruit some 3D artists, or, if you have the time, start to learn the skills yourself.

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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 3:37 pm 
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My god, how many times are you going to bitch about the same thing? 'GKs, qq.' I mean, yeah DE and Sisters need it more but talk about something new already. There's not going to be any coordination when there is nothing going on atm. Ark is on vacation and I'm doing 3.7. Once on of the two things are resolved then maybe there will be a coordinated effort. Atm it's just Melooo and Horus afaik and they're in contact with one another and know what each other are doing.

DC3.7 is taking a while for me partly because of lazyness and partly because DoW has no documentation so I have to experiment or look around at multiple folders to see what I need to change. It's easy, but the extra time backtracking into folders and files over and over makes it that much more tedious. Not that I'm complaining, I'm just making excuses :lol:

Anyway, regarding what you've been whining about, Onard; Horus and Melooo can do whatever they want. We have no animator so even if they did do the textures DE and Sisters need, they won't be in the game for months. If you can find a competent animator, I'm sure they'd jump right on to getting them playable but for now, they're just enjoying themselves making textures for this mod. Lets not change their minds by your constant badgering.


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 Post subject: Re: Inactivity Alert
PostPosted: Wed May 18, 2011 6:32 pm 
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See, that's what irks me. Speich merinas don't need yet more shiny termie models, and GK already have their basic troops and halberds, but pretty much all the team's modelling focus seems to be geared precisely to that right now.
they are pretty much done a few animation tweaks and they are ready to go(need new textures too i believe), or would you rather he throws that to the side even though hes at 95% or something to start from scratch on DE models and some SoB stuff. and so what if they do have their basic infantry? so do SoB and DE why is it that GK can't get special T3 units? because you don't like Space Marines? cus that's what it looks like. having all those things on the list isn't going to magically make a new release especially with no coder aroudn to do anything with them. just let him work on what he wants and FoK will get done, that's how its always been and not likely to change..
also you've been around long enough to realize that place holder models isn't the way FoK goes, either the proper thing or it wont be in at all, which is a bad thing in a way :lol:

id pitch in to help but i still get my head around getting DoW models into MAX so that's where im stuck. and thanks for the links, bookmarked.

oh and Fuegan, Melooo animates ;)

http://www.youtube.com/user/mel0oo#p/u

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