Dawn of Warhammer 40,000: Firestorm Over Kaurava

The definitive Table Top conversion mod for Dawn of War.
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 Post subject: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:30 am 
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If any one is willing to teach I'm willing learn, plz anyone?

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 4:57 am 
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It's a long and arduous journey. I may teach some of the basics though but the rest is plannin% and visualisation. :ugeek:

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:36 am 
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If any one is willing to teach I'm willing learn, plz anyone?


Download the Blender 3D beta (its free) and do some basic tutorials. If you had some fun with modelling, give the other 3d apps a try (maya, 3d max, cinema 4d etc.) to see which one suits you the best. Then do more tutorials and prepare yourself for the madness that is UV - mapping 8-)

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I may teach some of the basics though but the rest is plannin% and visualisation.


I think some wireframes as references would be helpfull enough - and interesting. I once tried to model a "just-for-fun" low-poly spech marine and I failed miserably. It looked rather Halo-esque and had 7k tris >.<


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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:35 pm 
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If you model high poly usually, it can be quite hard to model low poly. It just looks odd for most people.

Btw, blender is kind of horrible for most beginners. Wings 3d is the best, its fast, simple and does most of what you want to do for modelling. get an early revision or something, the later versions tend to have a more horrible interface :/ while it is more powerful... simplicity is key for beginners.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 12:55 pm 
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Oh, I totally forgot wings 3D, never used it myself but its kinda popular over at Taleworlds for the reasons Horus listed.

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Btw, blender is kind of horrible for most beginners.


True for the versions before 2.5, but the betas are a huge improvement when it comes to the UI - and its totally customisable now.

Quote:
If you model high poly usually, it can be quite hard to model low poly. It just looks odd for most people.


He, I´m quite used to low-poly modelling (with sailing ships a fav subject), I just totally suck at modelling human shapes :p


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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:07 pm 
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I will agree that new Blender releases are apparently a whole different ballgame to the pain that used to be Blender (going on what my friends say; I use Max myself).

Basically, not much more to add apart from what Horus said. Wireframes would be nice to look at, but if you're just starting they're not really a great help. A set of short tutorials on modifying simple meshes (cuboids, spheres, etc) with maybe some more advanced techniques (boolean modelling and the like) would be all that's needed really.

At least for low-poly modelling that DoW requires.

(I'm currently modelling a low-poly Space Marine, bava. Kinda ignored it for a few weeks because of uni coursework but it's around 1k tris atm. Or 1.5k, I can't remember. No idea how you got yours to 7k :D)

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 2:26 pm 
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(I'm currently modelling a low-poly Space Marine, bava. Kinda ignored it for a few weeks because of uni coursework but it's around 1k tris atm. Or 1.5k, I can't remember. No idea how you got yours to 7k :D)


Hmhm, prolly "a few more vertices here can´t hurt" combined with "this [...] has too many visible edges, lets smooth it a tad...", et voila...7000 triangles :D
Its been a while since I had a look at the model, though, might be worth it to work on it again... or a fresh start 8-)

EDIT: Just curious, are we allowed to post pics of self-made 3D models (WIPs, 40k or not) in the Arts Box?


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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 3:03 pm 
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the DE warrior that I made (and still working on) is a very good example of a low poly model that looks good and has nice enough edges on it :)
The tau are low poly too on the legs, but that is vry easy to get away with just being 6 sided cyclinders XD

Quote:
Just curious, are we allowed to post pics of self-made 3D models (WIPs, 40k or not) in the Arts Box?


That will be ok :D as long as they arent posted in the mod showcase stuff and if its 40k related... then put a little claimer saying its not part of the mod.

I'll probably put up a few basic tutorials for modelling though it will likely be in 3ds max but you can get monthly trials of that anyway :)

Edit:

Wire frame examples are infact very good btw gorb, providing its not just a wireframe. if its done like these:
Image
Image

then you can actually get a decent idea of how things were done. to get all the nice curves like i did is often something that stumps a lot of beginners where you can see they have really messy meshes where it was meant to be smooth. to get that then FFD is used. it can make the work flow a lot quicker and keeps a lot of flexibility work flow wise.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 7:01 pm 
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im using wings3D myself right now and gotten pretty good at it. like its already been said once you learn the basics its very easy to use, just having done the dog house tutorial on their site should be more then enough. only downside is not being to place vertices Independently :x

i got 3ds max08 from school but its just been sitting there.. having gotten around to many tutorials yet sicne its pretty complicated..

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:29 pm 
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When i get back from work and possibly slept I'll be starting up a few beginner tutorials that are more in the right direction for "beginner modding" lets say.

I think even a simple tau pulse rifle would cover quite a few of the basics :)

usually i go with the bolter but it s mostly a rectangle lol with nothing special about it.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Dec 06, 2010 10:13 pm 
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sweet thx guys im off to download wings 3d

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Tue Dec 07, 2010 12:56 am 
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balls this is damn time consuming and all ive built was a half assed castle wall and a bolter turret of some kind on a tower lol

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:07 am 
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ok now i have somewhat of a space marine torso how can i show it off to people to the forum?

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 1:49 am 
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have the window up and hit Prt Scr then open paint or any other image editing program and hit Ctrl + V to paste it

save it to your desktop or anywhere else. an then upload it via a image uploading site like imageshack or photobucket

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 3:37 am 
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Am I allowed to do a minor derail and ask if the new display pic Horus has up is one of himself? 'Cause it's pretty awesome.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 17, 2010 2:06 pm 
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Yes... That is indeed me :D

Now avast me hearty and get ye freebootin arse back on topic!

Or it'll be old davey Jones' locker for ye!

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:21 am 
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is this any good?

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 7:44 am 
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Abaddon_Despoiler wrote:
is this any good?


This doesn't really answer your question, but it's better than anything I've managed (for whatever that's worth to you).

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:33 pm 
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I guess it depends on what your trying to go for. If its accuracy and proportions, that area needs a lot of work, but that's the time consuming stuff, and ideally picture references help.

But in general, your using far too many sides on the cylinders for the legs and such when the more bulkier and noticeable pauldrons aren't as high poly.

It's not something i expect you to pick up that quickly, just use a bit of common sense judgement and think of how it will be viewed?

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 2:10 pm 
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For the record, legs suck. Space Marine hips were terribly designed :geek:

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 3:12 pm 
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Yea, but he's fiddling with the basics ^_^ even though my first model was a chaos terminator.... naturally XD I went over board with so much god specific upgrades and wargear. Then the terrible happened, my hd had crashed and it just drove me to remake it and as I already had a good idea what I was doing, I remade most of it with the night >_<

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 5:31 pm 
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ok but for a first timer pretty good?
and you guys have any hints on how to make them better?
i looked on youtube but i coundt find any warhammer stuff
for wings, thx

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:08 pm 
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http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/catal ... GameStyle=

Sometimes its just good to go to the source material... they even have pics of sprues for most of the plastic minis :D

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:38 pm 
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ok how do i get cylinders with less sides, the dreadnaughts feet were not smoothed at
all and the legs of the Space Marines were smoothed once. is there a setting to change how
many sides the cylinder has or something?

newer version


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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 6:48 pm 
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Usually there's little boxes in the menus that you click.

I haven't used wings in like years and its changed a lot. so I can't really help there currently.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:26 pm 
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i was wondering the same, but i couldn't find anything on how to set how many sides you want it to be.. try making it from scratch? :lol:

till now iv only had my hands at weapons, anything more would be to much for me for now i think :D
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image

yes, some parts also had to many sides but it was just for fun.. don't plan on using these for anything. and if i do ill simply change it
i also need to work on corners for tubing and stuff, looks a bit weird in some(burna hose)

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:31 pm 
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@ Abbadon_Despoiler: Wow, that's a high poly count.

Also, your shoulder pads seem to be a conglomerate of tubes (which bumps up the poly count considerably). Try creating a sphere and quartering it. This provides the base for the shoulder pad. To get the rim try raising/manipulating the faces (or vertices) on the edge of the quartered sphere with your mouse.

Bear in mind I am completely unfamiliar with Wings :)

Also, r.e. reducing the sides of the cylinders. This is how it works in Max, but I don't know about Wings. When creating the cylinder (i.e. before you deselect the mesh and click on something else) there should be options somewhere on your program's (Wings') UI to set the amount of "faces" (sides). Hopefully :D

@ Chompster: you work in Wings as well?

The only criticism I can see if that your tubing has far too many sides (faces) and also too many segments (in the case of the burner). You can reduce a tube to five segments and it'll still look okay ingame. No point using three times the amount of polys; in an RTS that amount of detail (especially on a mesh, textures are a bit different) is wasted.

If you're modelling for FPS games though, yeah, detail lol.

Oh, and the little nodule things above/on the top half of the axe haft can be represented by textures (you can even use normal maps to enhance your default texture), or at least by a little cylinder. You don't have to use a tiny sphere for each nodule.

EDIT: coupla WIP meshes. Nothing fancy, the Space Marines torso is about 250 polys and the robot-thing is only about 110 at the moment:

Image

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:42 pm 
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yea i started working in wings a few weeks back. and about the sides, yes i know they're a lot but that's because i don't plan on using these. it was just to fun and for practice
also
Chompster wrote:
yes, some parts also had to many sides but it was just for fun.. don't plan on using these for anything. and if i do ill simply change it

:)

awesome Space Marines torso btw

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:43 pm 
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Eh, I missed that; I was working on my post before yours was posted and I just edited some comments in :P

Now adore my lovely half-finished rubbish!

EDIT: Yay, adored! :mrgreen:

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 8:45 pm 
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Gorb your stuff is better than anything I have attepmted which just ends up looking horrible and nothing like what I wanted it to be.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Fri Dec 31, 2010 9:24 pm 
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I got stuck on the legs; honestly, those pictures look better than their current state. Keep on deleting meshes because I keep on messing up the goddamn hips.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 3:25 am 
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If you're modelling for FPS games though, yeah, detail lol.


You'd be surprised with how low poly you can get away with. Epic are especially know to use relatively low poly models for their games.

And don't shock at how good gorb is, he's modelled for a while too :D

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 5:26 am 
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gorb, you post a wireframe of these

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sat Jan 01, 2011 11:24 am 
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I got the polycount on the Marine horribly wrong, it's nearer 800 polies :D

The robot thing is only 100 though; much better at optimisation and creating shapes than I used to be.

I'll post a wireframe when I can; they're on my laptop as I don't have Max 2010 on this rig yet.

EDIT: found an existing one of the SPESS MEHREEN.

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:34 am 
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that's pretty legit, do you have you pay for 3dmax?

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:42 am 
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Abaddon_Despoiler wrote:
that's pretty legit, do you have you pay for 3dmax?

If memory serves 3ds Max is a pretty expensive thing, going anywhere from $600-3,000+.

The version Gorb looks to have says "Educational - not for commercial use" so I'm guessing a school package maybe.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 12:58 pm 
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Yeah, a student package. As a university student I can register on the Autodesk site and receive free licenses for a lot of their software.

Update:

Image

Tweaked the body and the collar, added some terrible legs.

Model now stands at 1100 polys and I still have to complete the legs and arms and do the head. Ho hum.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 3:27 pm 
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lucky, that looks a lot more useful than wings, ive looked on youtube and wings don't have crap on other 3d programs

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 5:56 pm 
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Bleh, your modelling things the hard and lame way gorb XD

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 02, 2011 7:05 pm 
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Care to elaborate? :(

I always like tips, I'm not exactly great shakes at modelling.

Also: few hours this afternoon resulted in robot being finished!

Image

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 3:25 am 
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throw some church steeples on that and you got yourself a titan!
lol

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Jan 03, 2011 4:16 am 
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FFD :D gets you nice looking curves and stuff :D

Can use it for almost everything.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:35 am 
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2 hours a day, for 2 days. still need to work on the grip

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sat Jan 15, 2011 9:01 pm 
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The most problems im still having with both wings and 3dmax is importing and exporting .whm files. ive found several plugins for converting these but none of them are working. Also, what is the process of conversion for wings and 3dmax?


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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:17 pm 
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Are you sure you have the right version of 3DMax and plugin? The plugin does on;y work for older versions (3DMax 8 AFAIK).

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 12:29 pm 
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don't know about 3dsmax, but for Wings its very simple. just load whatever model you want, go to file in upper left corner then go down the list to 'Export' it will then show a list of program formats you can export it in and simply choose in whatever format you want it to be exported to. then just open the program and go to import, find the file and import it.

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 12:36 am 
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Joined: Thu May 13, 2010 7:33 pm
Posts: 12
I have the full version of 3ds max 2009 with the w40kexporter9.dle and i keep getting an error saying it will not load w40kexporter9.dle every time i open 3dsmax. any of the other exporter tools ive seen give me the same error. the importer plugin seems to work fine.

As far as for wings 3d, im having trouble importing any models currently in the game. Under import there is no option for importing .whm .whe. im sure they need to be converted to a suitable format first before they can be viewed in wings, but i don't know what format and what program or plugin id need to convert it.


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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:14 am 
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Location: Hilversum, Netherlands
here are 2 links for tutorial explaining how to mod DoW(getting models in 3ds etc.) i bookmarked these to hopefully someday take the time and really put some effort into it :lol:
has yet to happen..

http://forums.relicnews.com/printthread.php?t=201109

http://forums.relicnews.com/showthread. ... s-Finished!

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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Mon Jan 17, 2011 2:28 am 
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kool thanks, Ill check it out.


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 Post subject: Re: Modelling
PostPosted: Tue Jan 18, 2011 8:12 pm 
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does anyone have a link for a max exporter compatible with 3dsmax 2009?


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