Dawn of Warhammer 40,000: Firestorm Over Kaurava

The definitive Table Top conversion mod for Dawn of War.
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 Post subject: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Wed Apr 13, 2011 11:19 pm 
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On May 3rd, I'll be releasing DC 3.7 to a select few people inside and out of the current team to extensively play test this build. On June 3rd, I plan to release it with all the play tested changes to the public. What I need are individuals who are both interested in PvP and willing to invest the time to give a detailed analysis on the game. Must have both Hamachi and Xfire installed. It is highly preferable if you have a microphone and Skype as well, even if your English is not perfect.

You will need to dedicate yourself to a single faction and spend the majority of the time using them (around 50% of games played). Now what I will be looking for is expressing both strengths and weaknesses of units depending on tiers, which weapons felt strong and which felt lackluster, the significance of micro in each phase of the game, what things difference between factions, your feeling of ease or challenge depending on choices made, which costs felt unnecessarily restrictive, etc. This is something that cannot be adequately explained in simple text and to even attempt will take very lengthy and time consuming posts.

As an example, I will create a sample situation where proper communication of specific details lead to a satisfactory change:



--You have chosen Imperial Guard and early game T1 people can just enter your base and wreck up your generators without you being able to defend against it. This is a problem that only surfaces in T1 in 1vs1 because in team games you can get to T2 where the Imperial Guard can really hold their own and outfit their infantry the way they need to counter any other faction. That means I can't buff units since then Imperial Guard would have a greater advantage by T2. So in T1, I can provide a research to each garrisonable building that gives the infantry inside different weapons to fire. You can upgrade to plasma to hold off Marines, snipers to hold off Eldar hit and runs, heavy flamers to kill off Orks, and heavy bolters to outrange the Tau.

--In further play testing, the change just doesn't seem to do enough justice because the guardsmen still can't recapture lost ground with lasguns and flamers dealing insignificant damage. Furthermore, the enemy can still overtake the base and destroy the generators before enough men are lost in the process. In later tiers the buildings become significant hurdles with the inclusion of the rest of the Imperial Guard army that makes their bases easily defensible. Buffing building weapons may offset later tiers and make the Imperial Guard incapable of being destroyed without a huge advantage over them. Instead, generator hp is increased dramatically to allow the weapons to deal enough damage to hold off attackers. This change does little for them during T2 where dedicated AT weapons are abundant so a balance is kept.



Detailing such cases in vast amounts would be a struggle by text even in the most well thought out posts, let alone if the tester was unaware of some of the options available beforehand. Instead of wasting 15 minutes detailing a post only to find out you could have used X to counter Y, play testing that and having to make a completely new post, its just so much easier to speak about it for 30 seconds and spend the remaining 14 minutes play testing that specific case. If all this sounds appealing to you and you are willing to take part in it, post a reply detailing the following in this manner:

1. The top 3 races you'd be willing to play test.
2. Your skill level.
3. If you own a mic.
4. Fluency with English.
5. Familiarity with Tabletop.
6. Xfire Username.

Races Selected:
Chaos - SlovaPL
Eldar - -7-, Gorb?
Imperial Guard - LordBaal
Necrons - Subspace5000, ArkanePriest
Orks -
Space Marines - Abaddon_Despoiler, Souldrinker
Tau - Deathhands5
Templars - Spardason21


Last edited by Fuegan on Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 10:53 am 
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Do we really have to Xfire? Really? Steam has integrated voice chat and doesn't cause games to crash.

1. The top 3 races you'd be willing to play test:

Eldar, Chaos, Tau/Space Marines (I'll pick one depending on how many other people pick them). In that order.

2. Your skill level.

Pretty damn low at the moment, however I'm not exactly bad at the base game nor am I unfamiliar with the modification.

3. If you own a mic.

Aye.

4. Fluency with English.

I'm English, and as I recognise that this in itself doesn't indicate fluency (some of the local dialects are terrible ;)) I'm stating that I'm probably far too good at English for my own good. Yay, ego.

5. Familiarity with Tabletop.

Not so familiar with 5ed, however I have over a decade's playing experience. Up to date on the 4ed Chaos and Eldar Codices, and also Tau Empire.

6. Xfire Username.

gorbster

Raptr username: Gorb
Steam username: Gorb (steam_ID: gorb_mort)

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 12:45 pm 
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Yeah I know Xfire sucks ass and anything else is far superior but it has sentimental value. lol We can use Steam then I suppose.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Thu Apr 14, 2011 9:29 pm 
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I CALL ELDAR. Imperial Guard and uh, TAU.

You know my skill level.

I owe a mic.

I'm pretty fluent in English.

I don't know TT.

You have my XFire.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 1:13 am 
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Space Marines, and Chaos

skill level is decent

no mic

1st language is english

i have one army (got it last year) read a lot of the books though

xfire jarulekxviii

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:13 am 
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Space marines, Imperial guard, Chaos

Decentish

I got a mic

Fluent in english

don't do tabletop

tylerg01

Im already in the Fok: Enclave but im not sure how much time I would be able to dedicate to this so don't count me as a 100% yet.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Fri Apr 15, 2011 2:12 pm 
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1. The top 3 races you'd be willing to play test.
Imperial Guard, Tau and da kowardz and their metal bawkses!

2. Your skill level.
:roll: ... I would like to say... beginner?

3. If you own a mic.
Hell yeah!

4. Fluency with English.
So, so... you can ask Thudo for my heavily beaner accent lol... but I think I'm easily understood, of course also I understood when I'm speak to... most of the time... and when not, a funny situation could arise! Fun!!

5. Familiarity with Tabletop.
I have readed some codex over the internet, but nothing really fancy on that departament, except for the Taros one.

6. Xfire Username.
Don't have one. =(

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 8:58 am 
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1. The top 3 races you'd be willing to play test.
Space Marines, CSM, Imperial Guard

2. Your skill level.
In DC once I had 1600 1v1 automatch. I was testing balance in 3.5 public relase (viewtopic.php?f=66&t=3185 viewtopic.php?f=66&t=3132).

3. If you own a mic.
I got one, but I prefere TS3 or Ventrillo, Skype rly sucks in games (I can reserve TS3 slot for us in my clan`s TS3 public server).

4. Fluency with English.
I`m Polish, but I think we will comunicate without bigger problems.

5. Familiarity with Tabletop.
None, just fluff.

6. Xfire Username.
slovahero

PS:
Ask me only when there will be no other people for testing.


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Yeah I know Xfire sucks ass and anything else is far superior but it has sentimental value. lol We can use Steam then I suppose.

Xfire>all, prove me wrong.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 11:59 am 
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Xfire's overlay causes crashes on older games and uses excess memory.

The UI is more cluttered and less functional than that of Steam's and personally every single theme I've ever come across for the application sucks large amount of what I call "kiddie syndrome" - giant images and game models pasted all over the interface in an attempt to identify it with a game.

The second paragraph, is, of course, my own opinion. The first statement is factual.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Sun Apr 17, 2011 2:25 pm 
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Gorb wrote:
Xfire's overlay causes crashes on older games and uses excess memory.

That never happened to me. Also Xfire is more simple, easy to use and less annoying than Steam. I`m using Steam only because Homefront requires it.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 12:43 am 
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So we both have our subjective differences. I guess I'll leave the debate here, and let people get on with responding to the topic :)

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 2:30 am 
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Thanks for the response, guys. I'll be updating my 3.7 thread on the 20th and giving out some in depth information of how things are being implemented. I hope some of the code monkeys here will take a look and really start considering some of the big changes in the future.

In the last days remaining, I'm hoping to throw together a quick tactica so each player will know what to look forward to and how to use/fight against armies using the new system. The main thing to know is that tabletop experience is going to go a long way, much more than before, but common sense will also be highly rewarded. I hope you are all as excited as I am for this release. :)


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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 18, 2011 10:11 pm 
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Hi,

Although I'm going to be away for nearly three weeks shortly after the 3rd of June, I'd be happy to get involved once I have access to a computer again

1. The top 3 races you'd be willing to play test: Necrons and space marines would be my first and second choices. Probably eldar or chaos for a third..

2. Your skill level.

Not great. Good in a comp stomp, but poor PvP record.

3. If you own a mic.

Yes, but it echoes a lot. Hopefully this will be sorted by the time I'm able to help, however.

4. Fluency with English.

Yeah.

5. Familiarity with Tabletop.

I own a necron codex and have played a few games, but I'm not very good.

6. Xfire Username.

subspace5000


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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Tue Apr 19, 2011 8:49 pm 
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1. Top 3 races: Black Templars, Tau, Imperial Guard.

2. Skill level: Poor.

3. Mic: Yes, but it sucks.

4. English fluency: I should hope so. :P

5. Familiarity with tabletop: Never played it, but I've picked up a lot from hanging out here, playing FoK, reading .PDF's, and hanging out with Fuegan and the rest of our gang.

6. Xfire username: dwnwithmsoft

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Wed Apr 20, 2011 1:40 am 
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1. The top 3 races you'd be willing to play test.
Any race which needs testing - Orks look lonely. I have played mostly chaos, Imperial Guard and Orks in the past, however I do play all the races.

2. Your skill level.
No good grasp of this. Experienced RTS player, but not fast enough to do well on the fastest speed. I understand the rules of the mod well enough to throw counters in the right direction.

3. If you own a mic.
Indeed.
4. Fluency with English.
Yes.
5. Familiarity with Tabletop.
Read some, played WH Fantasy, but not 40k.

6. Xfire Username.
None yet, I'll get it if it's mandatory, but would prefer steam.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 2:38 am 
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so has anyone been chosen to internal for 3.7 yet?

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 3:25 am 
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No. Don't ask off-topic questions, and your eagerness is blatantly obvious.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Thu Apr 21, 2011 1:49 pm 
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Would it matter if we can't make 3rd of May and still sign up?

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2011 6:47 pm 
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I'm very very sorry but there is just absolutely no way I'm going to make the May 3rd deadline I gave myself. So many things came up in the code that I wasn't expecting (blast weapons for one). If I send it out on May 3rd, I'll know I've sent it out with a lot of missing content. Atm, I'm currently fixing weapon priorities, making them target their ideal targets and fixing stuff like Sternguard to use the best ammunition on the best target. I've overestimated the current implementation of target priority as its almost always flawed (like using Vengeance Rounds against Terminators and the Avatar -_-). Even standard weaponry like Battlecannons have Vehicles (ones that it can barely hurt even) and invul save units on top priority as you can see below:

Quote:
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_01"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_vehicle_4.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_02"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_vehicle_3.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_03"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_vehicle_2.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_04"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_vehicle_1.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_05"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_vehicle_0.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_06"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_invuln_0_5.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_07"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_invuln_2_5.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_08"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_invuln_3_4.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_09"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_invuln_3_5.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_10"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_infantry_heavy_high.lua]])
GameData["attack_priorities"]["priority_11"] = Reference([[type_armour\tp_infantry_heavy_med.lua]])
GameData["fired_projectile"] = "guard_battlecannon_shell"


So what I'm saying, I'd rather push the release back a week or so and have something I can stand behind then release an inferior product. At least, you can look forward to a slightly more intelligent AI with the better target priority and armies where you do not have to constantly babysit, at least for casual gaming. Anyway, the date will be pushed back no farther than May 13th, though there is a small chance I will finish the coding by the 3rd (doubtful), I just didn't want to wait to the last minute to disappoint everyone. Sorry for the inconvenience.


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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 1:49 pm 
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Yeah!!! I got selected! Now, how is the procedure from here?

P. D. : There is no rush, take your time to make the best of it.

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 3:32 pm 
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LordBaal wrote:
Yeah!!! I got selected! Now, how is the procedure from here?

P. D. : There is no rush, take your time to make the best of it.
Buh?

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 Post subject: Re: 'Internals' for 3.7 beta
PostPosted: Mon Apr 25, 2011 7:59 pm 
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Gorb wrote:
Buh?

Meaning?

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